Curse

Cologne · Jan 22, 2006, 08:24 AM // 08:24

I have a wireless adapter as my internet source, so I disconnected a few times (actually, a LOT) while I was trying to load up my Ritualist or my Assassin. I must say, I love each equally.

Assassin: I do agree strongly with the statements above about the whole "blind" problem and "energy denial" problem. Think about it: Area Net has had to nerf so much in Guild Wars due to it being so-called "overpowered".
I have no doubts that as A-Net was coming up with the Assassin, they put something in there that made it not-invincible. Sure, it is a REALLY good class (I just love it, hands-down), but every class has to have it's downfall, and the whole point of the PvP element of Guild Wars, IMO, is to develop a team that plays to enemy weaknesses. (Warriors have SS / Empathy, Monks have Mesmers and the interrupts of the Rangers... etc.) Now RITUALIST is an overpowered character.

Ritualist: Let's take a look at the oh-so-famous Ritualist. I don't see a downfall to the ritualist, really. I mean, Minion Master Necros need corpses to summon helping "killers" into the battlefield. Ritualist can summon a spirit anywhere it wants, and doesn't need any corpses, and with that energy management spell in the pre-build... think about it. It is like, guaranteed it will probably be nerfed by A-Net somehow... I can just imagine tombs, Team Arenas: "Spirit Spike Ritualist Team". All you need is 3 spirit casters, and one healer, and there you have it, the ultimate MF of sorts, although this one requires no deaths, thus no mesmer, thus no heal area monks, thus no MM's. Just like, 5-6 spirit Ritualists and 3-2 Healers (in Tombs).

Lady Lozza · Jan 22, 2006, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcador

Critical strike atribute works on different weapons - try it out. A/W with axe can deliver a big punch.

Really, I hadn't noticed that, since I simply used the weapons on offer. I wonder if they are going to change that...

MarkyX - With assassin as an INDIVIDUAL profession, yes that is the point. Anything you choose to do and make of it (in combination with another prof) is your choice.

Reks · Jan 22, 2006, 08:59 AM // 08:59

I've had my fair share of wins and losses in Random with my A/R, and I'm still not sure if they're overpowered or not. For one thing, if my targets don't get support healing, they die. I've taken down several spellcasters without any help from teammates. Temple Strike just completely ruins them. Of course I can duel the warriors, but it's 50/50.

Now, downsides. Blind completely shut me down. Empathy I've only encountered once or twice. But I'm not dumb enough to attack through it. Sprit Shackles haven't run into yet. Evasion stances(those darn R/As and their Escape, Lightning Reflexes and Whirling Defense). The sad part is I think Rangers make better Assassins because of that... That and their expertise... =/ I could use Wild Strike, but what's the point if the lead attack doesn't hit?

As for ritualists, bah. Spirit spammers. Unfortunately I'm usually the only one on my team attacking their spirits. But if you get two Rt/Mos on the opposite team... or two Rt/Mes...

Ventius Hozza · Jan 22, 2006, 09:37 AM // 09:37

We are talking about in CA here right? Well they are pretty useless in CA i have found as all last night i was on my empath dom mesmer taking down assassins and monks alike. However in 8v8 they become a whole different thing

Lady Lozza · Jan 22, 2006, 09:40 AM // 09:40

I think the problem is at the moment in RA players do not really have to act like a team to win, in 8v8 that is a whole different matter. Assassins and Ritualist will find their place, but it probably going to take more than a PvP weekend to get there.

S H I N O B I · Jan 22, 2006, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

All I know is, I brutally murdered A/W's who cast Mirrored Stance on me while I had full adrenaline and Frenzy.

I had that happen to my A/W pre-made recently... but the result was the other way around. The frenzy made the warrior even more fragile and died with all the conditions and raw dmg i put on him even before my Shadow Refuge Ended...

Kai Nui · Jan 22, 2006, 11:06 AM // 11:06

They are overpowered. People have the ability to win with them with just a f'n template for crying out loud, and people are losing to this character with only less than ONE DAY OF EXPERIENCE with it. Just think of how laughably powerful it'll be once people get good at it and know the best secondary for it or whatever combo to go along with it. Definitely going to have a lot of nerfs come out soon...

Kai Nui · Jan 22, 2006, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cologne

Ritualist:I mean, Minion Master Necros need corpses to summon helping "killers" into the battlefield. Ritualist can summon a spirit anywhere it wants, and doesn't need any corpses, and with that energy management spell in the pre-build... think about it. It is like, guaranteed it will probably be nerfed by A-Net somehow...

It was nerfed when people did Spirit Spams. You can't create more than one of one type of spirit in the area without killing the other one there. You can only have one type of a spirit in an area at once, sorry to say. Necromancers on the other hand can still make multiple minions.

Lady Lozza · Jan 22, 2006, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Um... I've won stacks of times with templates, of all professions. That doesn't make them overpowered.
I've also been kill (and killed) the A/W build a stack of times over the weekend.

Denny Pace · Jan 22, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Just throwing my two cents into the fray, I didn't find either the Assassin or Ritualist to be overpowered over the course of my 12 hours or so of gameplay as and against them. I actually found the Ritualist to be more of a pain in the butt than the Assassin so far. When played well, a Ritualist can actually help push the opposing team back to a more favorable fighting position, due to the interrupting and restorative spirits. The Assassin, in contrast, is more of a single-target pain in the butt. It's a relatively soft target, but I can see the combination of R/A or A/R as a formidable runner/sniper.

Liking this update....

Cologne · Jan 22, 2006, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

It was nerfed when people did Spirit Spams. You can't create more than one of one type of spirit in the area without killing the other one there. You can only have one type of a spirit in an area at once, sorry to say. Necromancers on the other hand can still make multiple minions.

Why am I not surprised...

Rikimaru · Jan 22, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cologne

Ritualist: Let's take a look at the oh-so-famous Ritualist. I don't see a downfall to the ritualist, really. I mean, Minion Master Necros need corpses to summon helping "killers" into the battlefield. Ritualist can summon a spirit anywhere it wants, and doesn't need any corpses, and with that energy management spell in the pre-build... think about it. It is like, guaranteed it will probably be nerfed by A-Net somehow... I can just imagine tombs, Team Arenas: "Spirit Spike Ritualist Team". All you need is 3 spirit casters, and one healer, and there you have it, the ultimate MF of sorts, although this one requires no deaths, thus no mesmer, thus no heal area monks, thus no MM's. Just like, 5-6 spirit Ritualists and 3-2 Healers (in Tombs).

I think (though I havent tried it) that the ritualists have a pretty simple counter; they can't move their spirits, and if the spirits die, they are nearly screwed for a while. So all you have to do is take a fire ele and blast the hell out of that stationary asses with AoE's.

Empirism · Jan 22, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

well, i think assassins are not overpowered in general, but there need some tweaking, blinds and such can take them down, but there can be a "hit and run" style with way of the lotus+black mantis and temple strike, if that hits, with team who follow calls, monk cant do nothing and ts recharge in 12 seconds.

lets wonder 4vs4 situation where there are equally monks in both team, another without assassin with daze combo and another with it. for win I put my money for that team who have.

pigdestroyer · Jan 22, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

mm not really, my blood spiker can kill assassins in matter of seconds.. its funny to see them run though

PieXags · Jan 22, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

As a whole, I do not think assassins are overpowered. After reviewing them for a while I've come to one problem skill I think is pretty severly overpowered.

Temple Strike

It's an assassin elite skill that after following a single strike (a lead attack) interrupts, DAZES, and blinds an opponent for a set time. It only costs ten energy, and has only a twelve second recharge.

What the HELL is this? This is the skill I keep coming to. If I get killed by an assassin it's always because of this skill, no others. I don't give a damn if they hit me with an entire 4 line combo, I can take the damage, I can withstand the onslaught of normal attacks with the proper skillset, but this skill seems overpowered to me. Mainly because of the dazed condition it so easily spreads around.

Think about it---rangers and warriors can daze as well, rangers have concussion shot and warriors have skull crack. However, BOTH of these either have very high adrenaline or energy cost. For rangers it's 25 energy, for warriors it's 9 adrenaline. And BOTH skills require you to interrupt an enemy skill with it. This evens it out, being that dazed is one of the most powerful conditions out there, if not the most powerful (in my opinion).

So while rangers and warriors have to interrupt a spell and take up a shitload of adrenaline or energy, assassins get to spout it off whenever the hell they want for only ten energy, and only 12 seconds later they get to use it again. They don't have to time it---they don't have to interrupt a spell, they only have to use minimal energy and they get a short recharge time on it. If they decide to keep it they should tweak it to have a longer recharge time of I think about fifteen, maybe 20 seconds, and I also think it should have to interrupt a spell. Otherwise it's a simple, spammable daze that will tear apart most any caster with ease, unless they brought blind. And even if they did, it would take all their time just to keep the damn assassin blinded since he can spam the skill so easily around the battlefield.

Other than temple strike the assassins are decently balanced I think, I only note that one skill as being overpowered thus far.

flawless650 · Jan 22, 2006, 09:42 PM // 21:42

In my opinion, most of the assassin's elites are total crap. There's one elite that gives you 50% blocking while attacking; I can finally solo warriors and rangers in CA (sarcasm). Another elite does 50 damage as a lead attack, I'm not desparate enough to waste an elite slot for this. Great elite number three is a hex that can add additional 2 degen to poison and bleed. I'd rather be a fire ele with immolate or necro with life transfer than take this crappy hex elite. Two energy management elites, I have so much energy from regular regen that taking energy mangement elites becomes wasteful. To top it all off, one energy management elite is a hex that requires the target to die. Then, we have two other elites that decide it'd be grand to increase the chances of double hits and critical hits to 30-40% if you have max stats.

glountz · Jan 22, 2006, 10:03 PM // 22:03

I agree completely with Pie xag.
Make it cost 15, 30 sec recharge, Ambidextry elite so you need to link two attacks before, and remove blind as well.
Because, with this skill, you cant solely take not only a caster but a warrior.
I used this skill along frenzy and an evade stance to interrupt like hell casters and take down warriors.

Other than that, as I said before, assassins are pretty well balanced.

Empirism · Jan 22, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

"they don't have to interrupt a spell"

indeed. with manacost and recharge like current makes it, well... godly

"Ambidextry elite so you need to link two attacks before, and remove blind as well."

well, i dont think it should tweak or nerf totally, it can be left still powerfull elite. i think manacost and recharge time for it should be enough or that it should have used to interupt a spell beside automatic daze, thatway there needs little playing.

carnivore · Jan 22, 2006, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

As a whole, I do not think assassins are overpowered. After reviewing them for a while I've come to one problem skill I think is pretty severly overpowered.

Temple Strike

It's an assassin elite skill that after following a single strike (a lead attack) interrupts, DAZES, and blinds an opponent for a set time. It only costs ten energy, and has only a twelve second recharge.

What the HELL is this? This is the skill I keep coming to. If I get killed by an assassin it's always because of this skill, no others. I don't give a damn if they hit me with an entire 4 line combo, I can take the damage, I can withstand the onslaught of normal attacks with the proper skillset, but this skill seems overpowered to me. Mainly because of the dazed condition it so easily spreads around.

Think about it---rangers and warriors can daze as well, rangers have concussion shot and warriors have skull crack. However, BOTH of these either have very high adrenaline or energy cost. For rangers it's 25 energy, for warriors it's 9 adrenaline. And BOTH skills require you to interrupt an enemy skill with it. This evens it out, being that dazed is one of the most powerful conditions out there, if not the most powerful (in my opinion).

So while rangers and warriors have to interrupt a spell and take up a shitload of adrenaline or energy, assassins get to spout it off whenever the hell they want for only ten energy, and only 12 seconds later they get to use it again. They don't have to time it---they don't have to interrupt a spell, they only have to use minimal energy and they get a short recharge time on it. If they decide to keep it they should tweak it to have a longer recharge time of I think about fifteen, maybe 20 seconds, and I also think it should have to interrupt a spell. Otherwise it's a simple, spammable daze that will tear apart most any caster with ease, unless they brought blind. And even if they did, it would take all their time just to keep the damn assassin blinded since he can spam the skill so easily around the battlefield.

Other than temple strike the assassins are decently balanced I think, I only note that one skill as being overpowered thus far.

Completely agreed.

If this skill doesnt get nerfed it will be the staple skilll in CA and TA. When theres only 1 monk and you can put a daze on him whenever you want, you basically killed him.

I myself was playing a heal monk w/Prot spirit and Mend ailment when i ran into it and got completely blind sided

but after that i went boon prot instead.

Guardian>Assasins.

Mysterial · Jan 22, 2006, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivore

If this skill doesnt get nerfed it will be the staple skilll in CA and TA. When theres only 1 monk and you can put a daze on him whenever you want, you basically killed him.

If you're a smart arena monk, you're playing boon prot and you have Contemplation of Purity, which removes Dazed just as well as the various nasty hexes you can get and it isn't a spell so they can't interrupt it.

I don't think Temple Strike needs to be nerfed; I get screwed up by a Mesmer running Migraine and an interrupt or two at least as badly as this skill and the hexes are harder to prevent.